Rule Suggestion Raid cooldown increase

[Harry Chich]

What does this suggestion change/add/remove:
Increase the cooldown of CI's MRs/DCs to match the cooldowns of GOC and Foundation.

Has something similar been suggested before? If so, why is your suggestion different?:
Cannot see anything about this, sorry if it has been.

Possible Positives of the suggestion (At least 2):
- Increased amount of time for site staff to conduct meaningful roleplay.

- More breathing room between CI raids, moving the focus away from combat, even if by a little.

- Decreased amount of mass breaches caused by CI, E-11 will also have more time to handle breaches before the next CI raid.

Possible Negatives of the suggestion:
- Hurts CI's gameplay loop, less combative fun for CI.

Based on the Positives & Negatives, why should this suggestion be accepted:
By increasing the cooldown of main raids to an even hour, back to back raids will become much less of an issue. More roleplay scenarios will be opened up that can be done within the hour gap than before, even just 15 minutes is enough to get a lot more done.

As well as that, the deep cover cooldown of 30 minutes is insanely low. It feels like right after catching the DCs, they are back almost instantly. By increasing the cooldown to 45 minutes, being caught as a DC will feel like it has bigger consequences than currently.

Overall, this will be a positive change to encourage more roleplay in site that previously would have to be put on pause whenever a CI raid begins. As well as that, there will be less scenarios where DC spam occurs, which can become incredibly repetitive and annoying.

 

[Callum]

-support 0 reason for this ci could have their raid shutdown almost instantly if foundation are on top of it. Even longer times is just unnecessary

 

[Kito]

-support
this is honestly a horrid way to fix RP on the server. making one faction with little to nothing to RP with even worse is not a good addition

A faction with little to nothing in terms of RP shouldn't exists on an RP server !!!!!!!!

 

[Kito]

-support 0 reason for this ci could have their raid shutdown almost instantly if foundation are on top of it. Even longer times is just unnecessary

CI when they mop the site with 20 people in a single raid(theres 3 O-1 PVTs and 1 E-11 LPCL flagged up)

 

[Yeke]

For the understanding of all;

We have attempted this numerous times of increasing it, each time has lead to devastating impacts not just on CI (Mass resignations, refusal to play), but it has also significantly harmed the so called "SOP" regiments, Nu-7 & DEA whereby there is no one for them to interact with, thus they get bored and end up encroaching on other department duties, which in turn increases frustration with everyone else.

Now there are two parts to this issue;

1. Raid defence - Teamwork is key to making raids nulled and using your brain as defenders, when I am on the server, I do a lot of spectating and I have seen times when even GENSEC have locked in as a group and beaten back CI, because there was communication, however most security teams don't work together and want to be John Wick or Rambo flexing their kill stats, this is how you lose a raid.

To further add too, I have seen foundation get raided in the same manner day in, day out, and nothing changes in the security arrangement of the foundation, this isn't a smart approach, a dynamic security pattern is important to defend against CI, rather than just holding 1 checkpoint and leaving the one they always use unguarded and the lack of teamwork to cover areas that other regiments don't have the manpower to cover.

If teamwork doesn't happen, you are in a self-fulfilling prophecy of failure and denial that part of the problem is the actions of foundation.

2. Boredom - I wholeheartedly agree there isn't enough to do for CI on the surface other than cause shit, it wasnt intended to have these huge regiments that would cause a lot of issues, but we have to adapt, now its not as simple to do this, nor will there be any quick fixes, roleplay is there, just both sides hold OOC animosity and let that interfere.

In regards to content for CI, in order for CI to get more localised things to do, they would need a base rework, however that comes at a hard point where we are already jam packed in our map budget, and we would then need to look at what we remove to swap if we did go down that route.

For surface content, we need suggestions that aren't simply "Add gambling", because a casino won't solve the issue.

im up for discussion and ideas.

Kind Regards
Yeke

 

[Harry Chich]

We have attempted this numerous times of increasing it, each time has lead to devastating impacts not just on CI (Mass resignations, refusal to play), but it has also significantly harmed the so called "SOP" regiments, Nu-7 & DEA whereby there is no one for them to interact with, thus they get bored and end up encroaching on other department duties, which in turn increases frustration with everyone else.

I haven't been responding to this thread so much, rather just watching and seeing what people say.

I think that this is a crossroads decision. Would you rather have a healthy CI, or a healthy RP environment? Personally, I think that CI taking a hit to activity and fun is more than worth it in order to give us more time to plan and carry out quality RP.

 

[Yeke]

I think that this is a crossroads decision. Would you rather have a healthy CI, or a healthy RP environment? Personally, I think that CI taking a hit to activity and fun is more than worth it in order to give us more time to plan and carry out quality RP.

The problem is we have done this thrice, and each time have had to bring down the raid timer to original values, this doesn't just affect CI.

This affect Nu-7, DEA, GOC and then because of boredom they end up doing everyone else's duties, or just mass resigning.

The solution i dont think is the raid timer, personally i think its 1. partial skill issue, 2. lack of things for CI to do.

 

[Harry Chich]

The solution i dont think is the raid timer, personally i think its 1. partial skill issue, 2. lack of things for CI to do.

Of course there are things that Foundation could do to better combat CI raids, but unfortunately there is such a huge mismatch in the effort required from either side. For Foundation to effectively counter some of the worst raids where CI are holding an important chokepoint, it takes immense coordination and usually multiple attempts, usually up to 6. This is technically feasible but also incredibly unfun.

On the flip side, CI don’t have this issue of coordination because of a few reasons. One, they are all a single faction so there is a clear and defined chain of command who they must listen to. Secondly, CI are always together during a raid while Foundation must group together multiple different departments/MTFs across the site, which is huge and drastically increases response times in time critical scenarios.

I would love to discuss this in teamspeak with you at some point since as I believe I can explain it better in voice.

 

[Niox]

Of course there are things that Foundation could do to better combat CI raids, but unfortunately there is such a huge mismatch in the effort required from either side. For Foundation to effectively counter some of the worst raids where CI are holding an important chokepoint, it takes immense coordination and usually multiple attempts, usually up to 6. This is technically feasible but also incredibly unfun.

subjectively i would say CI's worst raids is when they breach SCP's. In these situations, CI have to be the aggressors and push out. If CI breach 8837, you can wait for him to fuck off a bit/lure him away, and then hold the CI inside. It works, I've literally done it before.
Alas I did have to shout at all of MTF to not push and be dumbasses, but that's on your other point (which is 200% valid).

On the flip side, CI don’t have this issue of coordination because of a few reasons. One, they are all a single faction so there is a clear and defined chain of command who they must listen to. Secondly, CI are always together during a raid while Foundation must group together multiple different departments/MTFs across the site, which is huge and drastically increases response times in time critical scenarios.

take a vents team for example. 8 coordinated people, blitzing through the facility all in comms together. On the other hand, Foundation are split up and definitely not in groups of 8, usually a lot slower as not everyone has speed, and if it's multiple Combatives, not all will be in TS.
I don't feel like the chain of command part is too much of an issue, but yes coordination is a big reason why CI have advantage a lot of the time.

 

[Jam]

Yes, hence why it should be reduced massively. A faction focussing on combat only and disrupting normal RP is not something that should be normal.


It would still survive, there would just be less of people who only want combat on the server - which personally I would find as quite good.


Yes, because when they aren't sitting AFK in their base doing something then they're more often than not doing raids that disturb RP without producing anything. If you cannot produce RP or at least allow the RP around you to flow as normal then it's frankly something that should be stopped.

CI shouldn't be reduced of the ONLY THING they solely exist on doing. Perhaps the Server (whoever that may include in terms of content team ect.) should genuinely look into a CI update. Crazy to imagine, but CI had no update ever. There was never a chance for CI to even be involved in much roleplay. Since as I said, CI roleplay is completely dependent on the player at the moment. Raid objectives definetly dont leave much space for RP either. Not to mention, that a reduction of CI raids will reduce activity for Nu-7, E-11, O-1, A-1, DEA.. ect. and these regiments will most definetly not use more time in relation to more roleplay, merely because they are also combat orientated in their duties. I'd say, it might even be damaging, as you'd find more people just lurking waiting for something to happen.

Also lowkey, I don't know what a 15 minute increased MR timer or whatever will allow for more room for RP. It might just be more efficient actually asking CI Commanders to delay a raid (from a OOC-perspective) in trade for something else.

it's not that I don't get your point. But that's how I feel about it. CI genuinely needs something to make them more sustainable in regards of gameplay loop